Comments on: Chicken or Horse Manure http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/blog/garden-q-a/chicken-or-horse-manure/ Just another Patwelsh.com weblog Tue, 07 Feb 2012 22:00:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.2 By: Alesha Turner http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/blog/garden-q-a/chicken-or-horse-manure/comment-page-1/#comment-1576 Alesha Turner Thu, 05 Jan 2012 18:55:16 +0000 http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/?p=214#comment-1576 Hi! Thanks so much for all your help. I was wondering what you thought about cow manure? I used to use it in my garden with good results untill I was told that it is too salty. Is this true, or does it basically have the same rules as chicken and horse manure? Hi! Thanks so much for all your help. I was wondering what you thought about cow manure? I used to use it in my garden with good results untill I was told that it is too salty. Is this true, or does it basically have the same rules as chicken and horse manure?

]]> By: Pat http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/blog/garden-q-a/chicken-or-horse-manure/comment-page-1/#comment-1561 Pat Fri, 16 Dec 2011 04:51:41 +0000 http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/?p=214#comment-1561 Thank you for giving me the chance once again to clarify this point. All types of manure must be aged prior to working them into the soil, but if you are using manure as mulch, that is laying it on top of the soil without working it into the ground, it can age right there, in place. Just make sure you allow it to age for 3 months before digging it into the soil. Also, you should never combine manure into beds where root vegetables such as carrots are to grow since it can cause them to split. As someone who grew up on a farm I speak from experience. After my family emigrated to America from Yorkshire England, my mother bought a farm in Bucks County Pennsylvania and that's where we lived during the Second World War. My parents were early organic gardeners. My mother and step-father were followers of Rodale who was right there in Doylestown near where we lived and where I went to school. We had many animals on our farm and if we could avoid it, we did not pile up manure into a smelly pile. We put our cow manure and straw from the milking stalls in the barn over the roots of our raspberries and we dumped the chicken manure straight into a manure spreader and spread it onto our fields and allowed it to age right there, in place. In spring before my brother plowed the fields prior to planting corn, that's when the manure got added into the ground and by then it was aged. In the sheep pasture the sheep manure was just left there to age on top of the ground and feed the grass. The cow manure from when the cows were outdoors grazing took care of the cow pasture. During winter of course we had to pile up some manure to age under a shed and then it was spread on the fields and vegetable garden in spring and plowed in. Aging manure on top of the ground has some great advantages, since if you pile up your horse manure, for example, and age it in a manure pile, then when it rains, much of the nitrogen from the manure will run off into the ground under the manure pile and go straight down into the ground, ending up eventually in the ground water. You could cover it with a tarp of course and that would preserve some of it. If, on the other hand, you spread the horse manure around and place it on top of the soil, for example over the roots of your apple, avocado, peach, and citrus trees, all that goodness (mainly coming from horse urine) will go down into the soil right there washed in by rain and irrigation and it will gradually l feed those plants. I know many gardeners who spread fresh manure all over their gardens in fall allowing it to age on top of the ground and during the winter the rains will wash some of that goodness down into the ground. I have done this myself when I was younger and stronger and could haul manure into my garden, so I have seen how good the results have been. When I was younger I rode a horse all day once a week and brought a garbage can of horse manure home each week and spread it around my garden. (To make it funnier, I was in those days driving a big gold Cadillac and had that garbage can standing upright in the trunk of the car with the top held down by a bungee cord.) I spread the horse manure without aging it even over the roots of roses and it never burned the plants. I have sandy soil which is a benefit of course. I wish I could still spread manure like this today since the soil in my whole garden was much better in those days. So if the dogma these days says my method is incorrect, my answer is that is just dogma, not based on experience or facts, but based on the fear that a few idiots won't use their brains and thus will have bad results from not washing their harvested crops before eating them or from digging the fresh manure into the ground. Some of our California UC advisors have ideas about manure that differ from mine. They have to follow the party line and say that manure adds too much salt to the ground here in California where our soils are alkaline already, but my point is that in winter when we have our rains those salts are washed away. My feeling is that we were given a head on our shoulders and we need to figure things out for ourselves and when we see results we may know some things that are not in the common dogma. For example, for many years right here in Southern California I have seen gardens, even with clay soil, greatly improved by applications of manure. Years ago I knew a gardener who lived next door to a horse owner. Every week he went over and got a few wheelbarrows of fresh manure. He simply put it on top of the ground as mulch over the roots of his citrus, avocado, deciduous fruit trees and everything thrived. After a few years of this treatment the soil in his garden was friable and full of earthworms, the guy could just put his hand down into it and show you handfuls of gorgeous black loam without even digging, and that guy was living on top of a mesa with what was originally hard clay soil and close to the beach as well. The only time you need to age manure is if you are going to dig it into the ground like a soil amendment and then yes, you need to pile it up first and age it—or you can do as I am suggesting and put it on top of the ground and dig it in later. (One word to the wise, don't ever dig under fruit trees or all the fruit will fall off. All fruit trees have surface roots close to the top of the soil and these are what take in the nutrients. If you dig up and damage those roots this will have serious consequences.) Thank you for giving me the chance once again to clarify this point. All types of manure must be aged prior to working them into the soil, but if you are using manure as mulch, that is laying it on top of the soil without working it into the ground, it can age right there, in place. Just make sure you allow it to age for 3 months before digging it into the soil. Also, you should never combine manure into beds where root vegetables such as carrots are to grow since it can cause them to split. As someone who grew up on a farm I speak from experience. After my family emigrated to America from Yorkshire England, my mother bought a farm in Bucks County Pennsylvania and that’s where we lived during the Second World War. My parents were early organic gardeners. My mother and step-father were followers of Rodale who was right there in Doylestown near where we lived and where I went to school. We had many animals on our farm and if we could avoid it, we did not pile up manure into a smelly pile. We put our cow manure and straw from the milking stalls in the barn over the roots of our raspberries and we dumped the chicken manure straight into a manure spreader and spread it onto our fields and allowed it to age right there, in place. In spring before my brother plowed the fields prior to planting corn, that’s when the manure got added into the ground and by then it was aged. In the sheep pasture the sheep manure was just left there to age on top of the ground and feed the grass. The cow manure from when the cows were outdoors grazing took care of the cow pasture. During winter of course we had to pile up some manure to age under a shed and then it was spread on the fields and vegetable garden in spring and plowed in. Aging manure on top of the ground has some great advantages, since if you pile up your horse manure, for example, and age it in a manure pile, then when it rains, much of the nitrogen from the manure will run off into the ground under the manure pile and go straight down into the ground, ending up eventually in the ground water. You could cover it with a tarp of course and that would preserve some of it. If, on the other hand, you spread the horse manure around and place it on top of the soil, for example over the roots of your apple, avocado, peach, and citrus trees, all that goodness (mainly coming from horse urine) will go down into the soil right there washed in by rain and irrigation and it will gradually l feed those plants. I know many gardeners who spread fresh manure all over their gardens in fall allowing it to age on top of the ground and during the winter the rains will wash some of that goodness down into the ground. I have done this myself when I was younger and stronger and could haul manure into my garden, so I have seen how good the results have been. When I was younger I rode a horse all day once a week and brought a garbage can of horse manure home each week and spread it around my garden. (To make it funnier, I was in those days driving a big gold Cadillac and had that garbage can standing upright in the trunk of the car with the top held down by a bungee cord.) I spread the horse manure without aging it even over the roots of roses and it never burned the plants. I have sandy soil which is a benefit of course. I wish I could still spread manure like this today since the soil in my whole garden was much better in those days. So if the dogma these days says my method is incorrect, my answer is that is just dogma, not based on experience or facts, but based on the fear that a few idiots won’t use their brains and thus will have bad results from not washing their harvested crops before eating them or from digging the fresh manure into the ground. Some of our California UC advisors have ideas about manure that differ from mine. They have to follow the party line and say that manure adds too much salt to the ground here in California where our soils are alkaline already, but my point is that in winter when we have our rains those salts are washed away. My feeling is that we were given a head on our shoulders and we need to figure things out for ourselves and when we see results we may know some things that are not in the common dogma. For example, for many years right here in Southern California I have seen gardens, even with clay soil, greatly improved by applications of manure. Years ago I knew a gardener who lived next door to a horse owner. Every week he went over and got a few wheelbarrows of fresh manure. He simply put it on top of the ground as mulch over the roots of his citrus, avocado, deciduous fruit trees and everything thrived. After a few years of this treatment the soil in his garden was friable and full of earthworms, the guy could just put his hand down into it and show you handfuls of gorgeous black loam without even digging, and that guy was living on top of a mesa with what was originally hard clay soil and close to the beach as well. The only time you need to age manure is if you are going to dig it into the ground like a soil amendment and then yes, you need to pile it up first and age it—or you can do as I am suggesting and put it on top of the ground and dig it in later. (One word to the wise, don’t ever dig under fruit trees or all the fruit will fall off. All fruit trees have surface roots close to the top of the soil and these are what take in the nutrients. If you dig up and damage those roots this will have serious consequences.)

]]> By: Maureen http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/blog/garden-q-a/chicken-or-horse-manure/comment-page-1/#comment-1549 Maureen Sun, 11 Dec 2011 21:05:46 +0000 http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/?p=214#comment-1549 Pat, I just want to clarify...can I put fresh horse manure at the base of my apple, avocado, peach and citrus trees? Or should I age first? I will definitely age for my vegetable garden, not place in fresh, correct? Thank you!! Pat, I just want to clarify…can I put fresh horse manure at the base of my apple, avocado, peach and citrus trees? Or should I age first? I will definitely age for my vegetable garden, not place in fresh, correct?

Thank you!!

]]> By: Pat http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/blog/garden-q-a/chicken-or-horse-manure/comment-page-1/#comment-1468 Pat Fri, 18 Nov 2011 03:01:59 +0000 http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/?p=214#comment-1468 I suggest you ask at feed stores if they know where you can purchase composted chicken manure. Also, phone local chicken ranches and nearby farms and enquire. I suggest you ask at feed stores if they know where you can purchase composted chicken manure. Also,
phone local chicken ranches and nearby farms and enquire.

]]> By: Stephanie http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/blog/garden-q-a/chicken-or-horse-manure/comment-page-1/#comment-1448 Stephanie Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:36:13 +0000 http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/?p=214#comment-1448 I live in southwester Ohio. Where can I purchase composted chicken manure in bulk? Stephanie I live in southwester Ohio. Where can I purchase composted chicken manure in bulk?
Stephanie

]]> By: Terry http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/blog/garden-q-a/chicken-or-horse-manure/comment-page-1/#comment-1018 Terry Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:02:32 +0000 http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/?p=214#comment-1018 Big help, big help. And superltaive news of course. Big help, big help. And superltaive news of course.

]]> By: Cliff Languein http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/blog/garden-q-a/chicken-or-horse-manure/comment-page-1/#comment-809 Cliff Languein Fri, 01 Apr 2011 14:48:17 +0000 http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/?p=214#comment-809 Thanks so much for your reply. It was very helpful. Cliff Thanks so much for your reply. It was very helpful. Cliff

]]> By: Pat http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/blog/garden-q-a/chicken-or-horse-manure/comment-page-1/#comment-799 Pat Tue, 29 Mar 2011 01:47:19 +0000 http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/?p=214#comment-799 There are a number of chicken farms in Simi Valley that might be a source for you of chicken manure for your garden in Simi Valley. You might also ask them who carries dried bagged chicken manure because they must have to get rid of theirs some way. In our area (San Diego County) Dixieline sells aged, bagged chicken manure. Try your local Armstrong Garden Center or True Value Home Center & Building Supply(805)527-7184) , Elegant Garden Nursery 805/553-0565, or Nature's Best Nurseries (805-529-0731), for the bagged product. If none of these carry it ask who does. Ace Hardware might carry the dry pelletized, non-smelly variety that is used as lawn fertilizer. There are a number of chicken farms in Simi Valley that might be a source for you of chicken manure for your garden in Simi Valley. You might also ask them who carries dried bagged chicken manure because they must have to get rid of theirs some way. In our area (San Diego County) Dixieline sells aged, bagged chicken manure. Try your local Armstrong Garden Center or True Value Home Center & Building Supply(805)527-7184) , Elegant Garden Nursery 805/553-0565, or Nature’s Best Nurseries (805-529-0731), for the bagged product. If none of these carry it ask who does. Ace Hardware might carry the dry pelletized, non-smelly variety that is used as lawn fertilizer.

]]> By: Cliff Languein http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/blog/garden-q-a/chicken-or-horse-manure/comment-page-1/#comment-797 Cliff Languein Tue, 29 Mar 2011 00:22:57 +0000 http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/?p=214#comment-797 I live in Simi Valley. Where can I purchase chicken manure. Lowes and home Depot dosen't carry it. Is there a commercial fert company around I live in Simi Valley. Where can I purchase chicken manure. Lowes and home Depot dosen’t carry it. Is there a commercial fert company around

]]> By: Pat http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/blog/garden-q-a/chicken-or-horse-manure/comment-page-1/#comment-791 Pat Tue, 22 Mar 2011 00:28:42 +0000 http://patwelsh.com/wpmu/?p=214#comment-791 You could age it in a pile or in a trashcan with a plastic sheet over the top. However in the rainy weather we are having if you spread it thinly on top of the ground over the roots of plants such as shrubs and roses the goodness from the manure would be washed into the ground to feed your plants and the smell would dissipate fairly quickly. You could age it in a pile or in a trashcan with a plastic sheet over the top. However in the rainy weather we are having if you spread it thinly on top of the ground over the roots of plants such as shrubs and roses the goodness from the manure would be washed into the ground to feed your plants and the smell would dissipate fairly quickly.

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