Question from Ica:

Answer from Pat:
Spent brewery grains are an excellent additive to the compost pile, but they vary in characteristics. Some beer companies are learning to use them to make compost and other companies are also recycling them for use as mushroom compost. They can also be used to feed worm bins. Composted brewery grains are one of the ingredients in Milorganite and contribute a lot of its nitrogen.

Most spent brewery grains when used in the compost pile can be classed as a nitrogenous waste (a fast, hot, “green” ingredient, like grass clippings). Layer with some carbonaceous materials such as dry leaves to make a nitrogen-rich compost. Brewery grains can be especially beneficial if you have a bin composter since they are nitrogenous and are easy to compost but need tossing to maintain their warmth. You may have to add some wood shavings to keep the compost from getting too smelly. Brewery grains are likely to be very smelly already when you first pick them up, so get them as quickly as you can after use. Some grains also have allelopathic qualities, that is, like corn gluten meal, they can prevent seeds from germinating. Composting them may not kill this action. Thus I would use this compost in areas of the garden where you don’t intend to plant from seeds and where you would like to prevent weeds from growing. Before using this compost in the vegetable garden, try planting some radish seeds in a container of potting mix mixed with the compost to make sure the seeds germinate easily.

Spent brewery grains are not a good material for mulching due to the fact that they are too smelly and also attract animals. Spent brewery grains that are very soft, wet, and smelly can be dug directly into the soil, as you asked, since they are already well on their way to breaking down and will release nitrogen in the form of gas directly into the ground in a form that plant roots can absorb. On the other hand, spent brewery grains that have been allowed to dry out or cake and get hard should not be added directly to the garden soil. These would subtract nitrogen from the soil in order to rot. Also they will act more like carbonaceous waste in the compost pile. You will need to add water to them so they can puff up again and get going. (When brewery grains are hard and dry some gardeners even recommend layering them with grass clippings to add nitrogen to them, but this does sound odd since the grains themselves are classes as nitrogenous. Under normal circumstances the grains should provide the nitrogenous waste and what you would need to add, if anything, is carbonaceous waste.)

One easy way to compost these left over grains and increase the organic matter in your soil is simply to dig trenches, for example between the rows in your vegetable or cut-flower garden, pour the grain in there, cover it over with soil, and let the worms do the composting.

Related posts:

1. How to Create a Hot Compost Pile
2. New Gardener – Composting for Two
3. Horse Manure Compost

Question from Michelle:

Then last night I got into bed and realized—oh dear I never watered the citrus trees! I was doing so many tasks that I simply forgot. I have turned the sprinklers on and am watering them now, but my question is will the roots get burned?

Answer from Pat:
Don’t worry about your citrus trees.

The purpose of watering well after spreading fertilizer is simply to water the fertilizer into the ground.  The reason is that a certain amount of nitrogen escapes into the air unless one waters it in immediately after spreading it or unless there is a good rain. (This is why we often fertilize ahead of rain.) When one uses synthetic fertilizer more nitrogen is lost into the air than when one uses organics, which are slower acting. Leaving dry synthetic fertilizer lying on top of the ground thus somewhat reduces the amount of nitrogen you gave your trees and for this reason is not a good practice, but it will not make a huge difference. Luckily it will not burn your trees. Dry fertilizer lying on top of the ground does not harm plants, it only harms the fertilizer.

On the other hand, fertilizing when the ground is completely dry and then watering inadequately afterwards can result in burned roots because strong nitrogen may hit dry roots, thus burning them. This problem is most often seen with lawns. Fertilizing a lawn when the ground is bone dry is a good way to burn it, even when using chicken manure. The safest time to fertilize a lawn is when the soil is moist but the blades of grass are dry, but even if the ground is bone dry you can perhaps avoid burning a lawn by watering deeply and well after spreading the fertilizer.

These are the reasons why I always say “Water deeply after fertilizing” or “Water the fertilizer in well.” The main point here is that in this specific case you did no harm. Also, it is wise of you to gradually use up your old fertilizers when you find them. Always follow package directions regarding amounts to use.

Related posts:

1. Fertilizing and Rain
2. Fertilizing Deciduous Fruit Trees
3. Grafting Avocado Trees

Question from Tom:

I am comfortable with pruning and watering the trees. What nutrients my trees need is a mystery to me. I am not sure how much fertilizer to use and I am confused by all of the micro nutrients such as iron. Currently I have been using a Kellogg organic fruit tree fertilizer in late spring on the stone fruit. I use Vigoro citrus fertilizer every 2-3 months on the citrus. I sprinkle a few small handfuls under the drip line and water during application.

My citrus leaves have a tendency to eventually become yellow and or pale. Some of my stone fruit leaves have purplish red spots and leaf edges (not curl). My bareroot cherry trees have some yellowing leaves that have been randomly dropping like they would in the fall when going dormant.

My soil is about 70% sand and 30% clay with varying amounts of organic material depending on the area of my yard. By itself my soil has a tendency to dry out in the summer and become as hard as cement. I have placed about 2-3 inches of mulch to keep the soil moist. The soil pH ranges from 6.5 to 7.0. I am concerned that my soil may be part of the problem.

Does it sound like I am fertilizing enough? I am considering hiring a consultant to analyze my situation. Do you have any recommendations?

Answer from Pat:
Fertilizing citrus trees is a big topic handled in depth on pages 63, 64, and 65 of my new organic book and in all my previous month-by-month books. There are several ways to go and choices to be made according to the needs and likes and dislikes of the gardener. Basically, citrus are big feeders and need up to 1 pound of pure nitrogen per year for a mature tree and proportionally less for smaller trees. They also need phosphorus, potassium, and trace elements in lesser amounts. Since I have covered this topic in such detail and length in my new organic book, and because without copying those three pages here I cannot provide all the details I must suggest you refer to this book, either your own copy or go to the library and read it there. Suffice it to say that most home gardeners starve their citrus trees, but also that there is no way or need for an organic gardener to exactly translate one pound of actual nitrogen and other requirements into products you buy on a shelf, though technically that would be one way to go. The real task for the organic gardener is to build up the organic content of the soil which in turn creates the microbial action to create and release natural nitrogen. Many suggestions for what to use are given on page 63 and 64 including the fact that many organic gardeners simply mulch their trees with a layer of horse manure under the canopy and drip line and beyond with horse manure and let the rains wash it in. (Don’t pile manure or mulch against the trunk.) Beginning this late, you have lost the chance to fertilize prior to February bloom. Organic fertilizers take time to work. Nonetheless, mulch the trees and fertilize now with the organic products you have, using more than suggested (of organic fertilizers, only, not of synthetic fertilizers), water in deeply, and continue to feed through the warm seasons of the year.

Regarding deciduous fruits, the jury is still out on feeding these and this is why so little information is out there for gardeners to access. For many years I have been investigating the results of agricultural experiments and trying to translate the best practices of commercial growers into language and methods for the home gardener and arranging it month-by-month as you need it. Fertilizing and mulching deciduous fruit trees is covered in my book on pages 86 and 87. Basically they are much less hungry eaters than citrus trees. Deciduous fruit trees should be fed lightly and never given too much nitrogen or you will get all leaves and little or no fruit, but they appreciate a deep organic soil as explained above. The time to give nutrients is when the buds are swelling in early spring, but with organics, except for fast-acting ones, you can apply a little earlier since they take time to work. See pages 86 and 87 for suggestions of what to use. Be very careful not to over-fertilize. Unless in extremely poor soil they will be fine, so I think what you did by fertilizing with organics in early spring was fine. I wouldn’t overdo it. Water deeply and infrequently rather than shallowly and often, as apparently you are already doing. Next year feed them in early February so the fertilizer will be working by the time buds are swelling and flowers opening.

Pale or yellow leaves dropping leaves on citrus or stone fruits means that you haven’t given them enough nitrogen. Apply a stronger, faster-acting nitrogen fertilizer such as blood meal or guano and water it in thoroughly. Chicken manure would help too since it contains phosphorus and potassium. Purple spots on leaves could mean lack of potassium or lack of trace elements. Nutrients are sometimes locked up in saline soils. Make sure your trees have all the nutrients they need. Apply John and Bob’s, humic acid, kelp and also to increase drainage in heavy soils products containing Yucca schidigera to increase drainage. Please see the chart on Generic Organic Fertilizers and Soil Amendments under Fertilizers on this website for what to use. Additionally, in this rainy year we have had some diseases proleferated. Curling leaves on peach and nectarines might mean peach leaf curl. See the Q & A on that subject on this website, also see the section on peach leaf curl 384 and 385 in my book and other pages given in index. Use dormant sprays in winter. If disease is a problem now, try controlling with Serenade (trademarked organic product.)

Problem soils can gradually be fixed by adding organics at regular intervals. You don’t need to hire an expert to tell you this, besides an expert might be a guy who learned all about synthetic fertilizers in ag. school and might not be on the organic path. Instead, use your time and money to gradually build up the organic structure of your soil with annual applications of horse manure in fall and your problems will be gone. I know because I’ve seen it work. But make sure your tetanus shot is up to date. Sand and clay together, unless naturally occurring, can lead to something akin to concrete, but even in that case organics can cure the problem. It just takes time. Fertilizer alone won’t do it. The worst soil in the world can be fixed up with organics and the very process of plant roots going down into the ground helps break up soil. For a full lineup of organic materials to use and how to use them see the chart on page 28 of my organic book. Also apply gypsum every two years. See the opening chapter in my book for full explanation on pages 21 and 22. This will help increase drainage. Good luck. It may take you a few years to correct soil problems but persevere. With diligent applications of organic materials, especially manure, and the help of slow natural rot and earthworms who will appear like magic, you will win out in the end. Try to get horse manure from a good horse owner who picks up daily. This will avoid the salts from salt licks. Read the opening chapter of my book beginning page 16, you will learn a lot. There are so many good things like humic acid, seaweed, and alfalfa that you can use. Some of these things can work real miracles. Also encourage beneficials to clean up the bad bugs.

Related posts:

1. When to Feed Apple Trees and When to Thin the Fruit
2. Dwarf grapefruit tree overpruned
3. How to Make a Pomegranate Tree Bear Fruit

Question from Maureen:

Answer from Pat:
Humic acid seems to have a strong effect as a planting fluid. It affects the soil by unlocking nutrients already there but also it stimulates the production of roots, making plants have larger root systems with a greater proliferation of roots. It is most effective when used the way you did, prior to planting or while putting in transplants. If I were you I would apply it once again as a liquid two or three weeks after germination when plants are up and growing. I have never used it on carrots and am not quite sure what it would do to them.

You do not say what climate zone you live in or what variety of apple you have. It is possible that vagueries of the weather failed to provide the tree with the temperatures it needed in order to bloom.When apple trees that usually bloom fail to bloom or when trees that never bloom are suddenly seen to bloom it is usually a result of day and night temperatures being different from what the plant needs in order to bloom or from vagueries in the weather. For example if you have a low-chill variety, a sudden frost at the wrong time of year might kill buds instead of stimulating their growth. Or a variety that needs winter chill in order to bloom might not have had adequate chill in order to bloom. Very often when apple trees don’t bloom it’s a result of trying to grow a ‘Delicious’ apple in the wrong zone. These are still sold to the unwary and some gardeners who don’t know better sometimes buy mail-order trees that are all wrong for their climate.

The other possibility is that something else happened to damage the buds, such as a borer or other pest eating out the bud before they could open. These are other mechanical reasons, for example, flower buds might have been cut off by bad pruning. To give you an example with apple trees. Apple trees bloom on spur wood. If someone came along who was ignorant of this and cut off all the spurs in winter then you would get no bloom or so little that it would not be noticeable.

There is one final reason that is often the case when a fruit tree does not bloom and that is when the tree has been pruned so heavily or when the tree was given so much nitrogen fertilizer that all it wanted to do was to grow and it put on a whole lot of green growth at the expense of flowers. Be careful not to over-fertilize deciduous fruit trees by giving them too much nitrogen since they will sometimes grow much green growth and many leaves instead of flowering.

I have heard of trees failing to bloom when they were growing in heavy clay and rains rotted some roots. Root rot can cause a tree to drop off the flower buds.

There is not much you can do now to stimulate flowering since flower buds should have already been made but if you have a low-chill variety such as Anna it might bloom later on in the year. You could try soaking the ground under the tree with a solution of 0-10-10 but I doubt it would help.

Related posts:

1. Humic Acid
2. Apple Trees Not Flowering
3. Few Fruits On Fruit Trees

The only wood products that can be used safely as soil amendment, in other words dug into the ground, are products that have been fully nitrolized (i.e.: enough nitrogen has been added to them so they can rot) or, alternatively, they have been fully composted, which means largely rotted. So the answer to your question is that your trees will be fine with raw chipped eucalyptus wood and leafy products on top of the ground as mulch where they will slowly decompose and add goodness to the soil. Meanwhile, this eucalyptus mulch will greatly reduce the growth of weeds and help to hold moisture in the ground. (See page 29 In my new organic book for the exact amounts of nitrogen to add to raw shavings to make them safe.) No addiltional nitrogen needs to be added when using the chips only as mulch.

Related posts:

1. Problems with Unrotted Wood Products in Soil
2. Vegetables in Raised Beds: Problems with Yellow Leaves
3. Vegetables, Eucalyptus, Clay Soil, and Fruit Trees

A: Yes, elsewhere in my book Sul-Po-Mag is frequently suggested as the correct substance to use as a source of potassium. Sul-Po-Mag is another name for sulfate of potash. It’s the same thing. Please refer to the chart of generic fertilizers on this website. Download it, print it up, and keep a copy in the back of the book. Unfortunately in the printing process this chart was inadvertently omitted. The publisher and I are very sorry, but the problem will be corrected and the chart will be included in the next printing. Please download and print this chart and keep it in the back of the book. When the book says “Refer to the chart of generic fertilizers on page 28″ this is the chart that should be there. Instead there is a chart of Organic Soil Amendments, which are not fertilizers.

Related posts:

1. Your book – my blog
2. Generic Fertilizers & Soil Amendments
3. Do Not Dig Chipper Materials into the Ground

Answer from Pat: No. Do not dig chipper materials into the ground until they are fully rotted, which usually takes a year or two and often even longer. Chipper materials from tree trimmers make excellent organic mulch for covering bare garden soil, but all raw woody materials, such as sawdust, wood chips, or shredded wood, will rob nitrogen from the soil in order to rot. If you dig chipper materials into the soil of your vegetable garden it could kill your vegetables or at least give them yellow leaves.

Here is a list of organic substances that you can safely dig directly into garden soil:

• commercial organic soil amendment intended as planting mix
• bean straw
• apple or grape pomace
• homemade well-rotted compost
• fully composted wood shavings
• grass clippings
• green manure
• ground carrot, apple and vegetable fibers
• kelp and seaweed,
• leafmold
• aged horse or cow manure
• rabbit manure
• rotted hay
• sludge
• wet and sloppy vegetable and fruit leavings from your kitchen or supermarket

After chipper materials have been lying on top of the ground as mulch for a year or two, during which they have been frequently moistened by rain or sprinklers, most of the woody product will have absorbed enough nitrogen from the air in order to rot and will thus become like compost and can be incorporated into garden soil. This is the time to add more fresh mulch on top. Even after a year or two you may find that some big chips of wood or leaves have not composted enough to be combined with soil. Rake these bits aside and let them sit longer with your next load of mulch until they too have fallen apart and become indistinguishable from soil. Then you can safely dig them into garden soil to build its humus content.

For more on this subject, please see page 22 in my new organic gardening book, lower left hand column. Please also see the chart on pages 28 to 30 for an extensive list of organic soil amendments and an explanation of how to use each one. This chart will tell you which substances you can mix into soil and which should not be mixed into soil without adding nitrogen. It also tells you how much nitrogen to use.

Another chart on generic fertilizers was accidentally omitted from this printing but will be included in the next printing. (See this website under Fertilizers for that chart.) I suggest you download it, print it, and stick it in the back of your book. And thanks for writing me to ask such a good question.

Related posts:

1. Chipped Eucalyptus Wood and Leaves from Tree Trimmers
2. Alfalfa as Mulch
3. Chicken or Horse Manure

Question from Christian:

Answer from Pat:
Thank you so much for your excellent questions. Here are my answers divided into categories.

• Vegetable Gardening and Edibles in a New Garden
• Chipped Eucalyptus Wood and Leaves from Tree Trimmers
• Sun and Shade in a New Garden
• Dealing with Clay Soil
• Fruit Trees

With best wishes for great organic gardening success,
Pat

Related posts:

1. Fertilizing Deciduous Fruit Trees
2. Chipped Eucalyptus Wood and Leaves from Tree Trimmers
3. Dealing with Clay Soil

http://www.agriserviceinc.com/index.html

Meghan also swears by alfalfa for mulch and I think I heard you say you didn’t recommend this. Can you explain?

Answer from Pat:
Robin: Thank you for attending and enjoying the talk and for the information on top soil. People often ask for good sources. I am intrigued in what you told me about using alfalfa for mulch and want to hear more about it. First to define the term “mulch”:  Mulch is an organic or inorganic material placed on top of the ground to help maintain moisture in the ground and cut down on weeds. Organic mulches gradually break down and eventually when thoroughly rotted improve the soil. Inorganic mulches such as black or red plastic can be used to heat up the soil and the air in cool coastal climates and increase yields of certain crops such as melons. Organic soil amendments and aged compost are different. These are well-enough rotted to be combined with the soil without subtracting nitrogen from the soil in order to rot. Alfalfa is in this category since it is a legume and thus has a high nitrogen content. For example, alfalfa can be grown from seeds planted in spring as a warm-season cover crop and dug directly into the ground in fall to improve the soil.

Because of its high nitrogen content I am sure that alfalfa used as mulch would quickly break down and then could be incorporated into garden soil, but some might dry out on top of the ground thus allowing some of the valuable nitrogen contained in it to escape into the air. (This can happen with any fertilizer left on top of the ground and not watered or cultivated into the ground.) Baled alfalfa seems like an expensive material for mulch when much cheaper or even free organic materials make excellent mulch. Baled alfalfa is a commonly used food for horses and other domestic hoofed animals. Moldy alfalfa hay, however, would make horses sick if fed to them, so it can often be obtained free if one can find a source.  Ground alfalfa meal or alfalfa pellets are used as rabbit food and also as an organic nitrogen fertilizer which one can work directly into the soil. (For more details, see my book and the chart on generic fertilizers on this website.)

Another reason one would not normally think of alfalfa as a mulch is because it is a legume. Leguminous plant materials, such as bean straw and green alfalfa, can be dug straight into the ground since they contain enough nitrogen to rot quickly in the ground. Alternatively one can layer alfalfa with a manure, such as clean horse manure as I suggested last night to make a very nutritious compost and do so amazingly quickly, within a month or two, without tossing and turning. (See the detailed explanation on pages 35 and 36 of my organic book.)  Another reason that I would be a little hesitant to use alfalfa hay as mulch is that alfalfa left lying on top of the ground near stables, for example, has the tendency to attract rats, opossums, racoons, very hungry coyotes, rabbits, and other animals who like to eat it. (Dogs and cats, however, can keep pest animals away.)

I would like to know more about why Meghan likes using alfalfa as mulch and what her experiences are. Perhaps there are no animal pests where she gardens or perhaps there are other factors involved that I’m not taking into account.

Related posts:

1. Right Mulch for Beach Plants
2. Horse Manure Compost
3. Avocado’s in Spring

Question from Dave:

Answer from Pat:
You are very lucky to have a steady supply of horse and pony manure, but I would not mix pine needles with the manure if I were you. This actually won’t create the correct green/brown mix (Ie: carbonaceous mixed with nitrogenous.) Straight horse manure, alone, (unmixed with anything) is close to the correct green/brown ratio already. One can just pile it on the ground and let it age and once aged it can then be combined into garden soil. In some cases stable bedding is included with the manure. Usually there is enough liquid nitrogenous stuff (horse urine) included with the bedding to sufficiently rot it in time, but this would not apply to pine needles. The needles most likely wouldn’t rot.

You are very lucky to have a steady supply of horse and pony manure, but I would not mix pine needles with the manure if I were you. This actually won’t create the correct green/brown mix (Ie: carbonaceous mixed with nitrogenous.) Straight horse manure, alone, (unmixed with anything) is close to the correct green/brown ratio already. One can just pile it on the ground and let it age and once aged it can then be combined into garden soil. In some cases stable bedding is included with the manure. Usually there is enough liquid nitrogenous stuff (horse urine) included with the bedding to sufficiently rot it in time, but this would not apply to pine needles. The needles most likely wouldn’t rot.

Since we are having such good rains right now it’s an ideal time to spread the clean manure directly onto the ground over the roots of plants you want to mulch and gradually feed. Let it age right there and dig it in in spring prior to planting. By spreading it right on top of the ground all the goodness of the manure will be washed down into the ground by these rains and not wasted on the ground under the manure pile. It also causes less runoff this way since it is less concentrated and there is more ground to hold the nutrients in the soil instead of letting them wash away. Spread the manure on top of any ground that you want to improve with organics, such as a vegetable garden or flowerbed or over the roots of fruit trees or ornamentals. There is no reason to add the pine needles to the manure.

In my book I describe a compost made from alfalfa and manure layered together. This combination is different from one using pine needles, since it makes a great quick compost which is ready in about two months. (As soon as it cools down and you can no longer see what went into it, it is ready.) You can then use it as mulch all over the garden or dig it right into the ground. The reason this works so well and makes such a nutritious compost so quickly is because alfalfa is not carbonaceous but green or nitrogenous waste. In fact alfalfa is a major source of nitrogen when used alone as fertilizer and it rots quickly in the ground. Pine needles, by contrast, have no nitrogen in them. They are pure carbonaceous material, and they have a hard coating and texture that means they take much longer to disintegrate. (It should be noted, however, that the needles of certain pine trees, such as Aleppo Pines, are smaller and thinner and rot quicker than those of other pines such as Torrey pine trees, whose needles take months or even years to rot.) Composting pine needles is usually a long process and they are also highly acid. The best use for pine needles in a garden is as a long-lasting mulch covering the root zones of acid-loving plants, such as azaleas and camellias. Some people like to make a separate compost pile for pine needles, simply leaving them piled up until they age. Then they can even be used in soil mixes for acid loving plants.  Other folks use them on garden paths in woodland areas under trees and shrubs, or at the backs of wide flower beds, but always on top of the ground. They make a very clean, good looking path cover.

Related posts:

1. Avocado’s in Spring
2. Chicken or Horse Manure
3. Spent Brewery Grains as Compost or Soil Amendment